Connected & Ready

Xerox’s big bet on automation pays off, with Stephen Miller

Episode Summary

As the concept of digital transformation matures, more companies are beginning to understand the role that various types of automation can play. In this episode of Connected & Ready, host Gemma Milne talks with Stephen Miller, Vice President for Analytics and Automation at Xerox, about his company’s Project Own It and how Xerox has embraced automation for itself as a company, and how it uses that experience to help its customers achieve similar benefits. Microsoft Power Automate is helping organizations automate time-consuming, manual tasks and processes to get time back for what matters most. By bringing together robotic process automation, digital process automation, and AI together on a single platform, Power Automate serves the entire spectrum of an organization’s automation needs. Watch a video to learn more by following the link in the episode description: https://aka.ms/AA8l72o Thank you for listening to Connected & Ready! Do you have ideas of how we can improve the show? Want to recommend a guest for us to interview? We value your partnership and participation. Please drop us a note at connectedandready@microsoft.com. We would love to hear from you.

Episode Notes

Gemma Milne talks with Stephen Miller, Vice President, Analytics and Automation, at Xerox about his work with robotic process automation, how it can be a driver for broader digital transformation, and some of the unexpected benefits he has seen from implementing RPA.

About Stephen Miller:

Steve has over 29 years of experience with major global technology companies including executive transformational roles in shared services, IT, major accounts and finance. For the past three years Steve has led Xerox’s Data, Automation and Analytics Organization. In this role he is responsible for Xerox’s digital transformation strategy and execution. As well, Steve leads Xerox’s commercial automation business, creating our digital products and selling scaled AI, data, analytics and automation solutions for leading clients across the globe. Before Xerox, Steve worked at DXC Technology and Hewlett-Packard. He holds an MBA from Boston University and  a Bachelor's Degree from Penn State.

Learn more:

https://www.xerox.com/en-us/services/it-services/robotic-process-automation

 

Topics of discussion

 

Sponsor link

Learn how Microsoft Power Automate is helping organizations automate time-consuming, manual tasks and processes to get time back for what matters most. Watch a video to learn more by following the link in the episode description.

https://aka.ms/AA8l72o

 

Contact us

Email: connectedandready@microsoft.com

 

Follow us on social media

Twitter: https://twitter.com/msftdynamics365

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/microsoft-dynamics

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJGCg4rB3QSs8y_1FquelBQ

Episode Transcription

Gemma [00:00:05] Hello and welcome. You're listening to Connected and Ready an ongoing conversation about innovation, resilience, and our capacity to succeed brought to you by Microsoft. I'm Gemma Milne. I'm a technology journalist and author. And I'm going to be exploring trends around how companies are adapting to a disrupted world and preparing for tomorrow. We're going to speak to the innovators who are bringing products, operations, and people together in new ways.  In today's episode I'm chatting to Steve Miller, vice president of analytics and automation at Xerox, where he details the digital transformation journey at Xerox and how it simplified the business, improved efficiencies, and established a culture of continuous improvement while also achieving $1.4 billion in savings. We also discussed the importance of automation to this process and the many ways it creates value for both businesses and customers by creating space for innovation. Finally, we get into the specifics of how the company achieved this vision with Microsoft's Power Automate platform. Before we start, I want to thank all of you listeners out there. If you have a topic or a person you'd love to hear in the show please send us an email at connectedandready@microsoft.com. We're so thankful for you all. Now, on with the episode. 

Steve, thank you so much for coming and joining us on the show. Let's start with a brief introduction. Tell us who you are, what you do, and how you got to Xerox. 

Steve [00:01:25] Well, thank you, Gemma. Appreciate you having me here today. And yes, I lead automation and analytics here at Xerox. I joined the company about two and a half years ago, really to drive what was a really a legacy manufacturer, a new digital way to work. So that's what we've been doing here the last couple of years. 

Gemma [00:01:44] Amazing. And of course, this [unintelligible] digital transformation has, of course, dominated the conversation for over a year, but even before that, of course, as well, but particularly in these pandemic times. But Xerox is a bit of a step ahead with an initiative called Project Own It, I believe, which launched in 2018. I wonder if you could tell us a little bit about what that is, how it came about, and who it serves internally and externally. 

Steve [00:02:09] Sure. Project Own It is a pretty important initiative for Xerox. It's really our Cornerstone Digital Transformation Initiative. I think over the last three years or so we've driven in terms of savings for the company just under one point five billion, and that's a material change for our company. But it's also, and as importantly, a change in the way that our company works. And when I say, a digital way to work and moving at the speed of software, really using tools like Microsoft Power Automate and other digital automation capabilities. We've really transformed the way the company does its business. And Gemma, as you were just saying, you know, that really has an impact on how our customers work with us and really our customer results. And that's what this transformation and digital transformation is all about. 

Gemma [00:03:01] So could you tell us what it actually is? What Project Own It is for someone who might not have come across it before?

Steve [00:03:06] Yeah, there's a number of key pillars associated with Project Own It. I'm primarily responsible for one of the key digital enablement pillars, which is really focused around automation. So when you think about a legacy manufacturer, a lot of the work that was done at the company when I arrived was really done with people. And when you think about a digital way to work in digital transformation, it's really about having automated capabilities perform that work. And of course, as we know, that automation, RPA, intelligent automation, it does that work faster, better, more accurately in a way that interfaces and can connect in a seamless way and then from a process perspective with our customers. So when we think about Project Own It here at Xerox, we're really thinking about how it impacts and how it allows our customers to realize more value in working with us. And, you know, I'll add that as we've been along this journey in delivering these types of not only savings, right, so we're more competitive to work with, but we have a digital way to work and we're easier to work with. Customers have also looked to us and said, hey, how do we leverage your experience in transforming these legacy processes and legacy applications? So a big part of what we're doing now is the commercialization of the digital capabilities we've deployed internally through Project Own It.  

Gemma [00:04:28] Before we dive in a little bit more into automation and RPA. Just briefly, why is it called Project Own It? What does that kind of signify? Tell us a little bit more about that. 

Steve [00:04:37] You know, that's also a great question, Gemma. I think when we say Project Own It, we mean that we expect our leaders to embrace, adopt, and use the digital capabilities, digital technologies to enable their work to really to move at the speed of software and to deliver the results that our customers expect at the cost that they expect as well. So we have multiple use cases just over and over of that digital enablement, that digital technology, adopted and used by our people. When we scale automation here, we really think of it in terms of making that happen through citizen development. And that's another key aspect of the tools and the capabilities and the partners we use. And we fully expect that our leaders can define requirements and can build and use these capabilities. And that's really what's happened at Xerox. But to answer your question around Project Own It, it's really around are people owning the capability and deploying them for value for our customers. 

Gemma [00:05:35] So you mentioned RPA or robotic process automation for those who may not have come across that term before and for those people, maybe you could tell us what that is and maybe share some examples of it in practice and also give us a little bit of insight as to whether there are industries or company types that particularly benefit from this technology. 

Steve [00:05:55] Yeah. Great question, Gemma. I think at this point, probably a lot of folks are pretty familiar with RPA. But, you know, RPA, robotic process automation, is really a set of software capabilities that allows companies, teams, organizations to automate a lot of the process work that happens today. So it's really coding rule-based activity that takes place across the company. I think when we double-click on the use cases, you know here at Xerox, we have bots working throughout the organization. So literally hundreds of bots that perform the manual transaction-based work across the company. And as I was mentioning before, Gemma, that's really what lets us move at the speed of software, if you will. Right? So transact volume, for example, our invoicing, POs, and other forms that we interface and work with our customers, supplies, ordering and so forth and our vendors. And as we integrate that capability with our partners and customers’ systems, it really allows for a seamless end-to-end way to work. And that's perhaps what's most exciting about RPA. I know, you know, folks like to focus on the automation of repetitive rule-based tasks, but one of the key aspects of RPA that I think is overlooked quite a bit is the fact that it really has the ability to interface between systems. And those systems can be legacy systems inside a company. So if you think about work where a person would take output from one system, do something to it, and then swivel it to another system. Well, RPA can also do that back and forth between systems with a vendor, the partner, and with a customer. And when you think about end to end with seamless work and seamless processes, really RPA has enabled us to do that. And then same thing on our on our customer side. Orders can come in and be seamlessly transacted in a fully touchless and automated way that allows our customers to receive information and their orders much quicker, more accurately. Same thing with the billing and so forth. So we really think of RPA as really a seamless, automating technology that allows us to bring, as you can see, that kind of value to our customers. 

Ad [00:08:10] Microsoft Power Automate is helping organizations automate time-consuming, manual tasks and processes to get time back for what matters most. By bringing together robotic process automation, digital process automation, and AI together on a single platform, Power Automate serves the entire spectrum of an organization’s automation needs. Watch a video to learn more by following the link in the episode description.

Gemma [00:08:44] So we touched earlier on about, you know, digital transformation being this term that has dominated the conversation for the past year. I wonder if you could give a little bit context as to how Project Own It and the work that you've specifically been doing within it, how that initiative has fared in the pandemic and how that's perhaps now lead, as you say, to transforming from just being an internal project to now being something that you can, you know, use for serving customers. 

Steve [00:09:08] Yeah, exactly, Gemma. I think, you know, for a company like Xerox that is really in the business of serving other companies that work in the office, for example, you know, our primary hardware product is office printing. So, you know, the pandemic certainly posed a particular challenge for Xerox. Right? Offices were closed. Schools were closed. Right? Universities were closed. So a lot of the companies that typically would be working with our equipment just were not because of the closure and everybody working from home. So the pandemic certainly created a challenge for Xerox. I think Project Own It and RPA were a key digital enablement technology to give us the flexibility to manage our costs in that challenging environment. And if you look at our results and now with companies back to work, back to office, you can see our results are trending very positive. But really, what our capabilities and RPA and through our Strategic Transformation Initiative and Project Own It have allowed us to do is really two things. I think number one is really saw us be able to manage our cost through the pandemic, through COVID. And I think now customers that were working with us through that time saw a very agile partner. And I think now that we are through the pandemic, hopefully, customers are saying, hey, listen, you know, how did you do that? Right? How did you manage to scale up and down? How did you manage to maintain operations through a very lean period of time? And customers have been very interested and have been actually buying our solutions that we've deployed really through COVID and even before. So I think it's really I'll say served as a springboard to our commercial automation business, which we've now fully launched, and I think is a is a main offshoot of Project Own It. But it's a reflection of really the complex solutions we designed and deployed into this legacy company, which now to our partners and customers, many of which have been with us for many, many years. They really see a different Xerox. Right? They see a very agile Xerox that can adjust. And I think that they've said, hey, you know, we have a lot of legacy environment as well. Hey, what have you done? You know, we're interested in working with you on that. So that's really been a springboard to our commercial automation business, which is one of our key areas of focus right now. 

Gemma [00:11:33] Love that. Yeah, we're definitely going to get a little bit into specifically about how you use Microsoft Power Automate with Xerox later on. But I do want to dive in a little bit more into what this looks like at Xerox. The CTO of Xerox Naresh Shanker wrote in Forbes that "automation shouldn't be part of a digital transformation strategy, but rather a driver" and it seems like that's kind of building a little bit on what you're seeing. Tell us a little bit more about who this belief shows up at Xerox. Maybe a little bit about this idea of citizen development that you touched on there. 

Steve [00:12:01] Sure. So, Naresh, our CTO, I think, has really brought a vision of transformative change through digital enablement to the company. And that's really a new way of thinking. And that was a new way of thinking, I think, when Naresh and I arrived. And I think to realize that vision at a company like Xerox, which is really, operates in a legacy system environment. When you think about Xerox has been around for 120 years. Right. So this company has a long history of, I'll say, technology adoption at various points in its history that have really allowed it to stay ahead, to continue to compete, and grow and flourish. And we're in one of those key periods now. Right. So if you think about Xerox in the previous couple of years, a lot of legacy systems and a lot of those legacy systems just lacked the agility. And I think what Naresh coming in said is, hey, listen, you know, we don't necessarily need to expend enormous amounts of company resources to necessarily transform those systems directly, but really to install what we call data and automation data fabric in around and through that legacy environment that really makes it work and operate as a modern technology enablement capability for the organization. In fact, when Naresh arrived here, he renamed the IT organization Xerox Digital Experience. And I thought that really sent a message around what capabilities this organization - a really a traditional IT organization was going to be bringing differently to the company. If you think about the last couple of years before, you know, say 2018 or so IT here, very traditional. Servicing traditional applications and not a lot of flexibility in those traditional system applications, not a lot of focus on data, automated capabilities. But when you think about digital experience, moving at the speed of software, Project Own It where our people have to own the capabilities, they're going to need a different set of capabilities. And as Naresh said, that is led by automation. And bringing these capabilities in a way that can enable citizen development is exactly what his vision entailed. And this is what we've been executing really over the last two and a half years. 

Gemma [00:14:21] Let's dive into the ROI here a little bit for those that are listening at and are curious about how process automation can perhaps utilize in their own businesses and organizations. What kind of results can businesses expect and what timeframe, you know, what kind of metrics should they be targeting? And, you know, or is it more than just cost savings? What kind of benefits should they be looking out for? 

Steve [00:14:44] Yeah, there's a number of key measures that we look at. I think certainly ROI is a key enablement. And I think, you know, for north of 50 percent, ROI is typically what we'd be looking for and payback from a typical, I'll say, basic RPA deployment. The payback and depending on the environment you're transforming, depending on the kind of RPA, if you go into some of the more intelligent automation with some workflow and so forth, you can have ROIs in the hundreds. You know, three hundred percent and so forth. So the ROI for us has to be substantial in value. Right? And we always look through that lens to start. But value can be measured in many ways. And like we said when we started, when we think about Project Own It, it was a primarily a cost take-out initiatives. You do not take out one and a half billion dollars without a capability that drives substantial ROI. So RPA is one of the key levers to execute that cost savings. And we use it as a primary lever to drive costs from the organization. That said, as you were just saying, Gemma, the other metrics that we look at for RPA and digital way to work in digital automation, particularly some of the intelligent automation and workflow capabilities that exist in in the RPA tools that we use and with our RPA partners are also extremely important. It really comes down to hey can you make a process touchless with our partners and customers? So when we think of deploying these technologies, we're thinking of N10 touchless throughput and that's when you start to see moving at the speed of software, digital way to work, where the transactions are processed with really people handling the exceptions. And that's really what we've been driving here. So that's how we think about the hard value capture when it comes to RPA and automation. 

Gemma [00:16:31] What would you say are some of the common hesitations that you hear among business leaders, perhaps when you're surfacing the idea of RPA or perhaps they've asked you, you know, hey, Xerox's managed to do some really amazing things recently. How do you do it? And you say RPA and they kind of perhaps raise an eyebrow. Tell us a little bit about that.

Steve [00:16:50] Yeah, great question as well. You know, change management, when it comes to digital enablement and creating a digital way to work, I'll say is as important to manage as is the actual technology deployment. So you mentioned, you know, you're wearing, you know, a couple of hats. Well, you know, certainly my title says, you know, automation and analytics. But the other hat I wear quite frequently is really that of change manager and driving management of change. You know, you're really going after the way work has been performed in legacy companies for many, many years. And that is a big change, really, the way we have looked at it at Xerox is, you know, well, certainly we're looking for cost takeout. But really, you know, Xerox and Xerox's people have tremendous experience in our business, in our industry, our customers look to us for that experience. So really, we've thought of automation where we've targeted in some of the high-value use cases automation as a way to free up that expertise, to focus and pivot towards some of the higher end and higher value customer use cases. So we definitely look through that lens in terms of freeing up our very experienced workforce and very experienced people to focus on the right things versus the manual work that perhaps they were doing for a long time. Now, of course, that change is a is a pivot, takes a lot to manage. And really, you know, we see it as an evolution, Gemma, because we're really trying to, this is a long term strategic transformation. So it starts with RPA as we start to use more sophisticated automation tools like some of the use cases we were just talking about with Microsoft Power Automate. But even as we start to move towards AI enablement, the management of change becomes even more important because you are really looking at changing over the way a lot of people not just work on manual tasks, but also make decisions. And the decisions are becoming really fully automated, with really only exceptions coming to people. So I would say, you know, the management of change is something that we really pay attention to and focus on. And it's been a key enabler to our success. 

Gemma [00:19:00] What would be some advice then for companies to, you know, when they start implementing RPA, particularly those with, you know, limited resources or, as you say, a culture that's perhaps a bit reluctant to embrace change? You know, can it be done in baby steps as opposed to an all in let's change all our systems and revitalize our entire digital transformation. Tell us a bit about that. 

Steve [00:19:24] Yeah, that's a great point. There is any number of ways to start the automation journey with RPA. I think Xerox with its leadership, it's at a senior executive level, decided to go all in. Right? So a full-blown organizational transformation to enable us to, you know, move at the speed of software. Right? Project Own It. However, there's a lot of other ways to do RPA and certainly in different organizations that I've worked with before Xerox and different customers that I've worked with, go at all different speeds and scales. And certainly there's many ways to take initial steps. Gemma, you said baby steps. I see a lot of companies kind of wading in, in particular the customers that are buying from us. I think one of the key approaches to say, hey, listen, you know, let's start with a singular process that's a particular pain point. They can look at our vast use case library here at Xerox, where we have, like I said, we have hundreds of bots working across the company. They can see the demos, they can see these bots working in the live environment say, OK, hey, that's a particular pain point for me in accounts payable or receivables or in accounting and finance and reporting or in digitization, right? Document management. Can you help me there as a way to start or if you can help me in one department? So in many cases the customers will say, hey, let's start here. And a lot of times it's with a single bot. And what you see is when they understand and when they can see the capability working in their environment and they understand just how powerful a capability RPA is, what we see is we see a rapid expansion and we see that move to scale pretty quickly. So if someone is just starting out on the journey, what I would say is pick a place to start, educate yourself on the capabilities, look for pain points. You know, that's a great starting point because the momentum that will build from these capabilities is quite powerful. And I've seen that growth happen over and over again. 

Gemma [00:21:29] Let's round off this chat by going back to touching on the sort of details of how Xerox uses Microsoft's power automate, you obviously gave us a little bit of insight into that early on and give us some great examples. But let's zoom back. How was the decision made to partner with Microsoft in the first place? Tell us a little bit about what the adoption looked like, how long it was before you started to experience impact what metrics be used? Just a little bit of overview of the kind of success of the program? 

Steve [00:21:54] Great question, Gemma. I think, you know, first of all, Microsoft is a key strategic partner of Xerox. Of course, we use many of the products. And when Microsoft began to focus in the automation and in particular the RPA software space, we immediately saw a natural fit for the technology and the capability. And just to be specific, I talked earlier about citizen development. And when we think about the kinds of use cases that our company was automating, Microsoft Power Automate was a natural fit for that. And let me explain a couple of specific use cases in the metrics. That's what you had asked about. So for us, one of the key benefits of Microsoft Power Automate is the ability to not just automate the tasks, but also collect information rapidly and put that information in front of users to then make decisions associated along with the RPA capability. So when you bring all that functionality together, it really creates a powerful suite of software enablement for our leaders to use. And another use case that comes to mind that I can talk a little bit about the metrics is has to do with back to office. You know again Xerox is a document management company that is really focused on serving our enterprise customers in the office and back to office was very important to support for many of our customers. We needed to be there. We needed to be in the office helping to reopen. And so to do that, one of the first things we had to do was to make sure that where customers said, hey, we need you with us as a partner to help reopen, but you need to make sure your people are vaccinated as an example. Well, we came up with a way, literally, in I would say in a matter of days using Microsoft Power Automate and Microsoft Teams to come up with a way to capture that attestation detail of our key employees that would be working on-site with our customers. And then be able to communicate that data securely, confidentially with our customers to give them the confidence and to let them know, hey, listen, Xerox is bringing the right people, we're safe. And we're going to be a strategic partner in your reopening as you come back to office. So and that kind of again, that kind of agility. When we think about metrics, we're talking about time to value, speed to value. Think about it. The company, our customers decide, hey, time to come back to office. Xerox you guys run our office environment. Let's go. And we were able to respond to that very quickly in terms of our ability to say, hey, we can be on site, we can be a safe partner with you, and we will lead your back to office efforts and you know, all the productivity and benefits you expect from that. So that's one use case. But I think if I take a step back, there are many more that take the capabilities of the Microsoft Automation suite, Power Automate, collecting that real-time data, being able to act on it, and then in an automated way that we think is a real differentiator. And combined with the citizen development that we have, it really creates a niche capability for Microsoft partnering with Xerox that we not only deploy internally at scale, but also now externally with our customers. 

Gemma [00:25:18] So we've touched on this topic of automation and specifically RPA on the podcast before. And a lot of what has come up is instead of thinking about this, technology as I guess, solving one problem or changing just one task it's more about this sort of change of mindset as to how you approach problem-solving and organization as a whole, and particularly when you bring in concepts such as citizen development, it's empowering people organization to you know, it sounds trite but it's a kind of what can I automate, how can I do it? This kind of brand new mindset? So I wondered, while you were implementing and partnering with Microsoft Power Automate in starting to see the power of this technology and what it could allow you to do, were there any unexpected wins perhaps, or use cases that you weren't expecting to pop up over the course of that of that partnership? 

Steve [00:26:06] Yeah, that's a great question, Gemma. I think the - we certainly were surprised that certain parts of our program, particularly, I think when the citizen development effort really started to gain its own momentum, because I think as an organization, we were heavily developing the bots and deploying them for the organization. But I think as we started this year, this past half, we really started to see that citizen development just start to create its own gravity, if you will, its own momentum, where now the use cases come from the people and they already know the capability. They may need some help understanding, you know, OK, how do we build this or how do we really get the requirements set to realize the value, but the use cases in the ideas are coming from our people and that's really, I think, a key pivot and a key change for really another key strategy, which is around self-service. But if you think about where technology enablement is going, yeah, it's automation. It's digital technology, digital enablement, moving at the speed of software. But a lot of that is coming through self-service capabilities. And that's, I think, one of the key enablers that Microsoft Power Automate enables us to do. And that's really to drive citizen development and value at scale. We talked about Project Own It where we're taking a cost out. We're creating a digital way to work for our people. But the expectations of Project Own It just continue, right? There's no doubt that that program is not ending. It's actually just going to be expanding. And the value capture is going to be just increasing exponentially. You need to be able to realize that value. You really need the capabilities that can be pulled and deployed by our people at scale. And you do not achieve that by having to build every bot with a SOL with a COE or a development team. Those multiple use cases through the organization have to come from the people. And that's what we've experienced really is a key transformational change over the last six months. It's a realization really of the vision you mentioned you read and Naresh had articulated in Forbes. And but again, it's a journey and we're just getting started. 

Gemma [00:27:53] You touched a little bit on the future, so I want to I want to focus on that to round us off. How do you see Power Automate helping support Xerox's future business goals? I mean, particularly now as we continue to emerge from the pandemic? And also, are there other Microsoft of technologies that you're evaluating maybe that can plugin or be part of this journey that you've already been on? 

Steve [00:28:46] A great question as well. I think our eye is always to the future here, you know, and we're learning from our customers as well as learning from our own use cases how Microsoft Power Automate is going to be enabling that journey for us. Right? It's really enabling our people to do their jobs better. And the Microsoft suite of products is key to that. You know, when I think about the broader product portfolio, I think looking at Power Automate and Teams integrated is really going to be one of the key enablers, because you know, how that data and information is shared and disseminated is just so important. Right? You know, I talked about the use cases really being about the real time collection and decision making of data coming in and then pushing that out to team members for action or to customers for action. And really, if you think about Power Automate, combined with Teams where the people are all coming together to work, you really can start to see the power and the speed of the data and decision making really start to accelerate. So I'm particularly excited about the speed of deployment that not only citizen development enables with Power Automate, but also with the suite of Microsoft products. I think my technology team and I are going to be looking, you know, with a particular eye towards that speed of deployment, that scale when we think about the products that Microsoft offers here. 

Gemma [00:30:10] Final question for you, Steven. What's the one key lesson that you learned during this implementation? 

Steve [00:30:17] I would say be bold and go fast. I think that would be what I would leave with somebody who is thinking about, OK, hey should I wade into RPA or should I, you know, should I give it a shot? I would say yes and be bold and go fast with it. I think it's a key differentiating technology. It's different than other systems and software before it as far as its value to the organization, in terms of not just being able to automate work that our people do today, but also integrate across legacy systems and environments. And when you bring that intelligent decision making, along with its ability to work with legacy systems so easily, it really is a differentiating technology. And we certainly see that like that and we see high value from it. So there's many other companies that can benefit as well. So I would say go for it. 

Gemma [00:31:12] Steve, thank you so much for coming and joining us on the show. Sharing both some of these high-level visions and ideas and information about RPA and automation and digital transformation as a whole, but also giving us some real great concrete insight and examples as to how this has happened in practice at Xerox. I'm sure people listening will find both elements of the conversation really useful. So, Steve, thank you so much for coming and joining us on the show.

Steve [00:31:35] Thank you so much Gemma. Great questions and really appreciated the time. 

Gemma [00:31:42] That's it for this week. Thank you so much for tuning in. You can find out more about Steve's work and indeed some of the broader themes we discussed today in the show notes. If you enjoy the episode, please do take a few moments to rate and review the podcast. It really helps other people discover our show. And don't forget to hit subscribe and turn in next time to continue our conversation about innovation, resilience, and our capacity to succeed. 

Ad [00:32:11] Learn how Microsoft Power Automate is helping organizations automate time-consuming, manual tasks and processes to get time back for what matters most. Watch a video to learn more by following the link in the episode description.